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Forest 3-0 Spurs: Three Tottenham Talking Points

1. The Hangover

I took the liberty of indulging in a rare evening out in the metropolis yesterday, sinking a few in one or two of London’s watering holes, and shaking a leg on the occasional dance-floor, so it was a well-oiled AANP whose head hit the pillow in the wee small hours. As such, Sunday lunchtime did not catch me in my rarest form. The head throbbed, the breathing was deep and the exhalations were quite likely flammable. A gentle, restful afternoon beckoned.

This, however, was all acceptable enough, because I was not due to run out onto a football pitch and play, a princely sum having been thrust into my back-pocket for the privilege, with the expectation of being somewhere near my physical peak for the following 90 minutes. Put another way, I could be excused for moping about the place, the very embodiment of lethargy. For our heroes out on the pitch, no such excuse existed.

And yet. I’m not sure that in the entire match our lot strung together three consecutive passes of any meaning. Apart from Archie Gray’s instinctive turn-and-volley in the first half, I’m not sure we managed a shot on target either. AANP has never really been one for xG, the details of that particular data-point seeming to me often to obscure the actual game as it unfurls before the eyes; but its broad principle I do understand, and for our lot yet again to have failed to hit 0.5 xG in the entire match tells a gloomy tale (and not whilst playing any of Europe’s elite, mind, but a Forest side casting a nervous glance over the shoulder at the relegation spots, dash it).

To a man, our troupe looked thoroughly undercooked, from first whistle to last. As mentioned, the inability to string together more than a couple of accurate passes was bewildering, and every time someone or other did have the bright idea of swooping in to win possession, this minor triumph was fairly instantly sullied by an errant pass following it immediately.

The complete absence of quality throughout was loosely mirrored by a fairly minimal level of energy, all of which left me wondering by the end if the gang in yellow on display this afternoon had also been lurking in those drinking-spots and dance-floors, into the wee small hours last night.

2. Vicario

I prattled on a couple of weeks ago, in the wake of Vicario’s grade A blunder against Fulham, that the chap really needed to keep his head down and his nose clean for the foreseeable, and generally avoid drawing any attention to himself.

It was a sentiment that drifted to mind as I buried the head in the hands circa minute 50, at which time the ball gently rolled around inside the netting, Vicario having immersed himself in quite the pickle when dealing with a misdirected cross.

I didn’t hang around for the post-match niceties – the AANP hangover was bad enough after sitting through that 90-minute performance – so I couldn’t quote back to you the key points made by Master Hudson-Odoi when quizzed, as he presumably would have been, about whether that was intended as a cross or a shot. It seems a pretty safe bet, however, that when the moment arrived, shortly after he had twisted Bentancur’s blood to a level bordering on the inhumane, that on looking up from the left corner of the area, his strategy was to deliver a cross and rely on better-placed chums to do the rest.

Not being a goalkeeper, I’m not really qualified to opine in any real depth as to what specifically Vicario ought to have done, but in a broader sense, several decades of watching and occasionally playing the game has taught me that goalkeepers ought not let crosses drift past them and into the net.

So, wiser minds than mine would presumably be able to lay out the specifics of where Vicario ought to have planted his feet, and how his body-weight ought to have been distributed and so forth – but ultimately, surely, the drill would have been to have prevented ball from entering net. In this he spectacularly failed. While it was probably not the worst error a goalkeeper could ever make – frankly it was not the worst this specific goalkeeper has made in the last month – a goalkeeping error it nevertheless was, and the logbook of such misdeeds is now growing to troubling heft.

If he were in any other position in the pitch, I suspect Vicario would by now have been quietly demoted to the sidelines, with a view to clearing his head and returning a few weeks or months hence, fit and bronzed and ready to give that penalty area a jolly good marshalling.

However, he is not in any other position; he is in the unique position of goalkeeper, and Our Glorious Leader is therefore facing a rather delicate balancing act. The first reserve, young Kinsky, has shown himself to a goalkeeper possessed of various fine qualities, but also never too far away from an out-of-the-blue howler himself. While there is a legitimate question, of quite how bad Vicario has to be before he is dropped, the waters are slightly muddied by the fallibility of the first reserve. No point removing Vicario, I mean, if the chap who replaces him is just as creaky, what?

3. Thomas Frank

Talking of chaps whose performances are creaking like nobody’s business, at what point do we need to start talking about The Big Cheese?

As my Spurs-supporting chum Ian pointed out during the morbid, post-match back-and-forth, Forest are on their third manager of the season, yet the Dyche chap, approximately 5 minutes into the gig, seems to have slapped together a unit with some degree of identity – by which I mean that they have a shape, a playing style, and personnel each of whom seem to know their jobs.

Compare and contrast to our own Glorious L., and identity – as defined above – is rather awkwardly lacking. “A work in progress”, one might generously offer, and if still in generous mood one might also point to the notable absentees amongst the cast list – Messrs Solanke, Kulusevski and Maddison still all apparently chugging paracetamol.

However, to this I emit a rather cheesed off sort of tut, and point out that absent though that lot might be, the next cabs on the rank are hardly unproven youths from the academy, but multi-million pound A-listers such as Kolo Muani, Simons and Kudus (AANP has a moral objection to the classification of Richarlison as an A-lister, so I’ll stick with those three for now). Even making the presumption that Frank is prioritising the defence first, he ought still to be able to get some sort of tune out of that front three.

Irritatingly, our lot seem to have regressed since that Super Cup performance against PSG. The whole thing would drive me potty if watching it had not already sapped every ounce of enthusiasm from my being

 All three goals conceded were today had about them a touch of the unlikely (although I noted a compilation of long-range goals conceded by our lot this season ran to around a dozen, so something in the apparatus clearly isn’t quite working), but what sucked my will to live this afternoon was not so much the goals conceded as the complete absence of creativity or strategy in the other direction.

As ever, the gist seemed to be nothing more nuanced that Go Wide And Hope. Moreover, this GWAH gambit seemed explicitly to exclude use of the left wing, where Kolo Muani is rather mystifyingly square-pegged, leaving all our eggs in the Mohammed Kudus-shaped basket. (I slosh over the details of course – Djed Spence, for example, seemed task with much of the heavy lifting out on the left – but the vague point remains that we were oddly short of ideas beyond going wide and keeping fingers crossed.)

Four months into the season both results and performances are dreadful, and the occasional stroll against a European minnow is doing little to paper what is not so much a crack as a great yawning chasm. Frank needs to buck up his ideas and pronto.

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11 replies on “Forest 3-0 Spurs: Three Tottenham Talking Points”

For Djed Spence to steam off like that, just a week of two after the blanking of the manager after the Chelsea game (and reported “apology”) suggests to me that Frank has, in the time-honoured phrase, lost the dressing room. He’s lasted longer than Nuno, but surely the board must be feeling twinges of buyer’s remorse.
Wouldn’t it be great to have a manager with a robust independence of mind, a bit of tactical nous, and just a soupcon of that Ferguson fieriness? A Sean Dyche Spurs wouldn’t have lost 3-0 today.

You’re pretty well spot on Ed , but Jed Spence was awful today and has been pretty petulant most of the season , which is a shame as he’s broken into the England team ( coincidence) . The Keeper is an accident waiting to happen and whoever plays in the front three is innocuous.

Its really quite simple, Forest were a 3-0 better team then Spurs, as probably 14 or so team in the Premier League are. Everyone can harp on the manager but how many of these players have been in the team for at least a few seasons now; has anything changed??? Who would I keep in this 11? hmmmm….. Kudas maybe on his day but my god his final ball is really bad. VDV of course. Romero? nah, makes one shake the head way too often. I’ll take Bergvall and Sarr as support players. The rest, goodbye!

Yes – the current axiom that every new player – however expensively purchased and remunerated – needs a season or two to make a worthwhile contribution, and every manager – however glowing his previous CV – is embarking on a ‘project’ of three, five or fifty years in Tottenham’s case, infuriates me – haven’t the likes of Richarlison and Bentancur had ample time to demonstrate their uselessness in the past three or four seasons at Spurs?
As for Frank, his sheer stupidity so far this season has been a revelation, and a distinctly unexpected one. The fact that he looks like a man in need of a straitjacket or a dose of the liquid cosh doesn’t help – I thought we were getting a Danish Wenger or at least a step-up from Postecoglou, but I was wrong – he’s becoming as big an embarrassment as the Graeco-Strine Porker, and I simply couldn’t have believed that possible only a few months ago. It’s Tottenham, lads!

It was a real stinker like most of our matches this season. To compound things my wife went to the local garden centre during the match and I could have joined her and had an enjoyable afternoon.

There is no imagination or ability to pass a ball accurately in the team. Every time we get into the the final third we immediately pass the ball to the opposition or pass it back in multiple steps to our beloved goalkeeper who promptly throws it it to a player that’s already got opposition players all around him and the ball is lost.

I share doubts about Romero – he shows no urgency to get the ball forward. At one point I was wondering if he needed a recliner so he was relaxed enough to make a decision on which back-to-goal teammate that can’t trap a ball, he was going to lob it at.

Once again another shambles of a season for us to pontificate on. All we have left is the hope that Man City and VIlla keep playing well and spoil Arsenal’s season.

It’s hard to defend Romero’s lapses, but I wish we had a team good enough to accommodate them – he plays with such swagger and determination. For his performance at Newcastle I’d give him another 5-year contract!
Sadly, your final paragraph says it all. Ironically, I’m now off to a garden centre…

Every time we fold with barely a whimper and I think we can’t sink any lower, lo and behold an even more abject performance occurs to unpleasantly surprise us. And it was a surprise, as I (foolishly) thought we had turned a corner after two encouraging results and performances last week, and a battling draw at Newcastle that we barely deserved the previous midweek. We should have been going into yesterday’s game full of confidence, even though Brentford’s away record is shocking, and even though Slavia Prague could have scored two or three goals of their own if they knew how to finish. At least there had been some promising signs that we were learning how to create chances, rather than just launching hit-and-hope crosses into the box.

Yesterday, we looked like 16 players that had only just met 15 minutes before kick off. I don’t recall one moment where three or more passes were strung together. I don’t recall one moment where we bypassed their press and got at their back four. I don’t recall one time that Richarlison controlled a forward pass, shielded it, and provided an outlet to start an attack from. Scrap that, as the second and third part can’t happen without the first part, and he never even managed that!

Perhaps, worst of all, as 100% effort and commitment should be a given, was the fact that we had a comfortable home win on Tuesday, while Forest had to play in Holland on Thursday, which provided us with a considerable advantage. All of those aforementioned factors pointed to reasons for optimism that we had turned a corner, and that we’d be hungry to keep the three-game unbeaten run going.

The back five picked itself. I wanted to see Palhinha alongside Gray, with Simons in the 10. I wanted to see Tel on the left, as he was starting to show promising signs. I wanted Kudus on the right, and I wanted Muani up front. I didn’t get exactly what I wanted, but there were only two differences. However, those two differences are our two biggest liabilities, especially away from home.

I don’t want to hold Richarlison and Bentancur totally responsible for that pathetic excuse of a ‘performance’. Man for man we stunk the place out. Vicario had a disaster. Gray probably tried harder than any of the other players, but made a terrible mistake that he’ll hopefully learn from, although the keeper didn’t need to put him in that position in the first place. His attempt to atone for his error was our only shot on target the entire match, and that came from nothing. Simple passes went astray. Second balls were lost. Headers were lost. There was no pressing. We couldn’t break their press, yet Forest were able to find space in the channels and be at our back four with a couple of basic passes. This was Spurs at their absolute worst and, sadly, it’s become all too commonplace over the past few years. When we’re bad, we’re so so bad. Do the players even care? Where was our captain? Apart from his Newcastle heroics, does he ever lead by example? He seems more interested in making reckless tackles and walking with the ball than setting the tempo and motivating the players.

We all know the issues that have got us to this point. Years of pretend investment by our previous chairman, while any genuine talent gets tired of not winning and being paid less than their peers, and leaves for greener pastures. Years of buying ‘potential’ over ready-made stars, while expecting ‘win-now’ managers to win now. Applying an 18-month transfer embargo when we actually looked like a team that could win things. Signing Saha and Nelson as our ‘big push’ signings in January. Sacking an aforementioned ‘win-now’ manager the week before a cup final and putting Ryan Mason in charge. The list goes on and on.

Although Daniel Levy can be blamed for the lack of quality in this squad (and many other things), it’s not his job to motivate, or indeed coach, these players. It’s not his job to pick the team or the tactics. Nor is he responsible for the injury list that continuously deprives us of players we believe are going to turn our situation around when they come back. Plus, most importantly, he’s gone, and hopefully we’ll see some ambition from the new regime in January. But has Thomas Frank shown enough to deserve the board’s support with new signings? Has he shown anything at all?

Blame for this defeat and sh*tshow of a performance lies solely with the manager and the players. Yes, we have injuries to key men, and they will undoubtedly improve our options in the final third, but unlike the majority of games under Ange, which were also mainly woeful despite the trophy win, we have our centre backs and two of our full backs fit, and we have a ball-winning number six in front of them when Frank picks him. We have Kudus, we have Muani. Ange had Johnson and Richarlison. We SHOULD be better than last season. And we definitely shouldn’t look like complete strangers on the pitch that can’t be bothered to play for the badge.

Losing the faith and support of the fans is the worst thing that can happen to a club. We aren’t surprised by these performances anymore (despite my earlier comment). We are numb to it, and we have grown to expect it, to the point where any spark of entertainment brings about a massive overreaction. It’s so depressing, as we so want to believe. Something needs to change, and quickly. Usually, that’s the manager. At the moment, I’m swaying in that direction. If we saw some signs of a style, even some patterns of play, that show the promise of what could be, then I’m fully behind backing this manager. Unfortunately, he has no credit in the bank, so the next few weeks before the window opens are basically his job interview, even though he already has the job. One more performance like yesterday and the fans will be calling for his head, leaving the new board with a huge decision to make. It’s incredibly bad planning to spend £100m+ on new players if you’re about to sack your manager, with Forest and the Nuno-Ange debacle being a prime example, leaving them in the bottom three. And they absolutely killed us yesterday!

I really hope there are contingency plans in place for January for the manager position, and any potential new signings to complement their desired style of play. I’m not expecting a change, as an array of managers will become available next summer, so I’m expecting that Thomas Frank will be given more time (and money) to turn things around. But, if we’re humiliated by Liverpool on Saturday, the board’s hand may be forced.

I do think Frank inherited what looks like a group of very skilled individuals but not a team and very few of them love Spurs like we do. He needs to replace many but with the squad he has he needs to focus on building that love and pride in the club. Ironically, the players that would have that love and pride are mostly out on loan as they’re our brilliant academy players who rarely get a look in on the first team.

I think Frank needs to be given more time to get it right – let’s back our man and know we have will have to chew grit many times before we get there.

PS I’ll be moaning about him next week anyway as we capitulate to Liverpool once again 🙂

It was atrocious as evidenced by AANP & all commentators; this time I found no hope anywhere, nobody escapes the criticism not even VDV. I too am now doubting Thomas…….I know Spence was not effective but he was still attacking, taking on players on the left-wing – to no end effect admittedly – but subbing him out for Ben Davies at that stage at 2-0 – what was that supposed to do? Spence is immature and clearly a handful on & off the pitch – he needs management – tough love or the door. Kudus has been our stand-out (only?) attacker this season – yet he seemed very dumb yesterday. He persists in the same battering-down-the-shithouse-door tactic – it often worked against his nominated marker yesterday- but Forest had Eliot Anderson stepping in every single time to cover Kudus’s move. Anderson is now ensconced in the England team as the 6 – yet in the close season we went after Gibbs-White as a 10 instead – when it is an Anderson we needed first – we got Palhinha – not the same thing. Simons is another case – our new 10 – is he Bryan Gil in disguise? I had hoped that (as I did with Gil) he is a reincarnation of Modric – but I am almost sure to be disappointed again. We talk about missing injured players – Solanke (always had a shocking injury history – how many minutes will we get from him in the New Year – with a lousy strike rate to boot) Maddison – another player with poor fitness history – we are mugs if we expect anything resembling an EPL player after his latest knock, Kulusevski – same thing, Udogie same thing. There is nothing to look forward to apart from hoping our coach will trust our youth. We need 1 or 2 players to come in and to inspire the rest. Roll-on summer and let Paratici earn his commission selling 80% of the current squad (not replacing them or adding to the squad with more mediocrity) and force Thomas to use our academy talent – before its too late. Our plan needs to be clear – it needs to be 5 years – and the Board need to recognise that. 5 years of step-by-step improvement is better than the last 7 years of meandering.

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